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Lineman: Finesse Moves > Power Moves All Day

  1. #31
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    I know this has nothing to do with the topic but the guy who made the Freeny Highlight made a Ray Lewis one too.



    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AACK4DQnDU8&feature=channel_video_title]MADDEN 12: TRUE TO RAY LEWIS-ONLINE FOOTAGE - YouTube[/ame]

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by baller7345 View Post
    I think the key to using the spin move is to make sure you give your guy plenty of space. I've used it a few times with Mathews (most of the time I power move since its the higher rating) and I've manged a few sack when I take a wide rush angle as after the spin you then have a free path to the QB. Strangely enough Mathews doesn't have the spin move trait but he can do it. The cpu sucks at using it but it can be useful if you run a wide 9 when you control the lineman.

    On the second thing I guess I should have mentioned I believe success with guys like Peppers should be tuned. I've watched guys swim past 4 straight blockers. Its just stupid how effective that particular move is. The spin is actually more realistic in terms of success but since it gets overshadowed by the crazy swim move people never want to use it. The craziest thing I've seen was 2 days ago when I watched the DT of the Raiders bull rush through my center, guard, and fullback and almost got me before I got the ball off. That was the most terrifying thing I've seen because the swim move is wimpy compared to seeing 3 of your blockers get thrown at you.
    My problem with the spin move is that just like bull rushing, it is low percentage. You don't get taken out of the play on a failed spin, but you get pushed so far outside that you are a non-factor. Swim moves can be done so fast, if one doesn't get through, usually the next does. You're right about Matthews, I have no idea what other traits might contribute to that, maybe block shedding? Seems to be only a real factor in the run game, strength is absolutely useless for the most part when using finesse moves.

    And yes, the finesse guys like Peppers should be tuned. Like I said earlier I literally had a game where I'd beat the guard off the line every single time, and since the guards are on the inside, it was like an instant sack. When you get through on the inside, the tackles don't seem to care, and won't bother to help out, it's weird. Being able to get past the guards is the biggest advantage there is, you don't have to worry about running into a lineman who picks you up after you dust off another. The spin move is alot more realistic as you stated, because with how good lineman are, simple swim moves don't do much to the elite blockers in the NFL. The swim move is ridiculously overpowered in the sense you have no real risk, and high reward. I mean even the best tackles get beat after a couple moves if you know what you're doing. Now when you have your best DE/DT over their weak guard/tackle, it just becomes utterly ridiculous. Try going into the lab and sticking Peppers over a weak guard or tackle, you will be able to beat him in 1-2 seconds flat almost every single time.

    I have a serious question for you, and I'm not being sarcastic. Is this idea allowed in the SIM community? I am a freestyle player, but I know you tend to lean towards SIM and know your stuff in that department. My question is, is specifically substituting a guy like Peppers over their weakest lineman, and abusing his finesse moves for instant pressure allowed? You can honestly create havoc using it, it can be WORSE than a nano blitz when you consider you can blanket the field in coverage, and still get to the QB in a couple seconds with just 1 rusher... I went around and read some of the SIM rules, and I never found any rules against doing this, all I found were rules that you needed to rush 3 lineman at the least on each play. I am just wondering what the SIM community would think about this idea, because it really is abusing the system in a way, and can have a huge impact.
    Last edited by cyrax; 11-08-2011 at 05:57 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrax View Post
    I have a serious question for you, and I'm not being sarcastic. Is this idea allowed in the SIM community? I am a freestyle player, but I know you tend to lean towards SIM and know your stuff in that department. What I mean is specifically substituting a guy like Peppers over their weakest lineman, and abusing his finesse moves allowed? You can honestly create havoc using it, it can be WORSE than a nano blitz when you consider you can blanket the field in coverage, and still get to the QB in a couple seconds with just 1 rusher...
    There would be no rule against it. I often come out in quarters 3 deep man and have Mathews on the line when I want to play some prevent D. Most SIM substitution rules state that you can move players around as long as they don't defy common logic (i.e. WR at CB for entire game or having a WR at FB so that you can have your 100 speed guy right on the line for runs) that doesn't include packages but its to stop obvious depth chart abuse. Some places go a little to the extreme and put speed caps on anybody to be moved to TE or FB so that it doesn't happen but most of the time its not that bad. Moving players on the line is perfectly acceptable because most of the times you can do it by hitting the right stick a couple of times on the playcall screen.

    Now I'm sure that in some SIM circles someone is going to get angry about it but you aren't actually breaking any of the games mechanics so I don't see why not. Now if you were only rushing 1 guy then you'd have more of an issue because most SIM leagues force you to rush at least 2 (contains count but spies don't). This is normally put in place to discourage building your entire defense around max coverage and normally you can create some pretty good coverage plays with 10 guys.

    With that said I could see the 9 Velcro play becoming a huge issue if someone who knew what they were doing did this but I can't see any reason to ban it becasue that would essentially mean banning usering the D-Line altogether. Since you have to mix up your playcalling (less so on defense because of all the carry over between formations) you'd probably be fine usering Peppers in this case. Now if you manged to get like 10 sacks then the guy you play is going to be ticked but more than likely he simply couldn't get rid of the ball fast enough. Its a bit off for it to all come from one guy but look at the Bears early in the year and the Eagles they had the QB's under constant pressure.

    I can't see any reason it would be banned but I'm sure there is someone out there that would disagree. It be alot like playing on All-Madden vs the cpu when you play against a good DT. You have about 2-3 seconds to get rid of the ball even if they just send 2 unless you max protect. That is why I try not to play the cpu on all madden before I play online because I have to shrink down my playbook for the cpu and when I go to play a person I keep running my quick hitting plays instead of using everything I have.
    Last edited by baller7345; 11-08-2011 at 06:15 PM.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by baller7345 View Post
    There would be no rule against it. I often come out in quarters 3 deep man and have Mathews on the line when I want to play some prevent D. Most SIM substitution rules state that you can move players around as long as they don't defy common logic (i.e. WR at CB for entire game or having a WR at FB so that you can have your 100 speed guy right on the line for runs) that doesn't include packages but its to stop obvious depth chart abuse. Some places go a little to the extreme and put speed caps on anybody to be moved to TE or FB so that it doesn't happen but most of the time its not that bad. Moving players on the line is perfectly acceptable because most of the times you can do it by hitting the right stick a couple of times on the playcall screen.

    Now I'm sure that in some SIM circles someone is going to get angry about it but you aren't actually breaking any of the games mechanics so I don't see why not. Now if you were only rushing 1 guy then you'd have more of an issue because most SIM leagues force you to rush at least 2 (contains count but spies don't). This is normally put in place to discourage building your entire defense around max coverage and normally you can create some pretty good coverage plays with 10 guys.

    With that said I could see the 9 Velcro play becoming a huge issue if someone who knew what they were doing did this but I can't see any reason to ban it becasue that would essentially mean banning usering the D-Line altogether. Since you have to mix up your playcalling (less so on defense because of all the carry over between formations) you'd probably be fine usering Peppers in this case. Now if you manged to get like 10 sacks then the guy you play is going to be ticked but more than likely he simply couldn't get rid of the ball fast enough. Its a bit off for it to all come from one guy but look at the Bears early in the year and the Eagles they had the QB's under constant pressure.

    I can't see any reason it would be banned but I'm sure there is someone out there that would disagree. It be alot like playing on All-Madden vs the cpu when you play against a good DT. You have about 2-3 seconds to get rid of the ball even if they just send 2 unless you max protect. That is why I try not to play the cpu on all madden before I play online because I have to shrink down my playbook for the cpu and when I go to play a person I keep running my quick hitting plays instead of using everything I have.
    Thank you for your in-depth response. If you have any idea of why I ask so much, I've strongly considered joining a SIM community. The only problem I have is that they are generally too pushy on the rules, I just basically want to play without blatant bug abuse. Now with that said, I think they might reconsider their rules if people really learn how to abuse this. I had 9 sacks with Julius Peppers in one game, vs a very good opponent. I was using a one man rush, and I had one guy in a contain, which by your explanation means this would be allowed in a SIM league. You might be surprised just how ridiculous of pressure you can get, I have gotten sacks out of Quarter FAG D, 9 guys in coverage and still got to the QB in about 2-3 seconds. I had a game this guy was using the Seahawks, and one of their guards is only like a 71 or something. Anyway literally I beat him with the first swim move off the line almost every single time, and could go right through the B gap for an instant sack. Like I said, I had 9 sacks, I could have had more, but he began getting rid of it and throwing picks, I was in amazement how I could literally only give him a couple seconds in the pocket with a 1 man rush. I really recommend you give this a look, lab for a while until you get perfect at lineman control. Play your best FAG D, and use a guy like Peppers over his weakest lineman, and watch how fast you can get pressure, you will be amazed. It honestly rides very close to being a glitch in the sense that it is abusing mechanics, because weaker lineman have no way of stopping the swim move of the really good defensive rushers. They literally cannot handle user controlled finesse moves anywhere near the way they handle bull rushing and such. At the very most it will take you 2-3 swims to beat the lineman, this is rare for me when I mismatch though, I usually get right through, I've gotten the technique down pat. If they have a weak guard, it's more devastating than having a weak tackle, because the other lineman won't help out ever if you come through the middle. If you beat a tackle, you have to properly maneuver to avoid other lineman, if you beat the guard, you can smash the QB right away, they won't bother to help out.

    EDIT: One big difference between moving someone on the line and doing a substitution behind the scenes is that they won't see it coming. If you move a lineman, they can see that and compensate. They have no idea what's coming when you suddenly substitute Peppers over their 70 OVR guard on a crucial 3rd down, play FAG D with 9 players in zones, and insta sack them through the B-Gap lol.
    Last edited by cyrax; 11-08-2011 at 08:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrax View Post
    EDIT: One big difference between moving someone on the line and doing a substitution behind the scenes is that they won't see it coming. If you move a lineman, they can see that and compensate. They have no idea what's coming when you suddenly substitute Peppers over their 70 OVR guard on a crucial 3rd down, play FAG D with 9 players in zones, and insta sack them through the B-Gap lol.
    I didn't mean I moved Mathews down to the line after coming out of defense. I will sub him into the D-line either through using the LB pass rush package or just a simple formation sub (When I come out in Quarter. Unless you are really observant you probably won't notice that there is now a White dude with way too much hair on the line.

    I knew it was bad but are you saying that they couldn't even get 3-5 yard completions down the field. I figured running plays like shallow cross and stick would at least give you the option to dump it off.

    http://www.forum.ma-ddenbible.com/t4...2-what-u-think
    get rid of the hyphen in "m-adden" after copying the link adress and the link will work...this site is picky about posting links to other tip sites.


    These would be some of the more lenient (except for the substitutions as they seem to frown on the Dual HB package) as they let you move one rusher and as many coverage guys as you want. There is no mention of what you saying being illegal and you are allowed to move guys around the line as you wish.


    OS Madden Community Rules & Guidelines - Operation Sports Forums

    Here are the rules to the operation sports online community. I played in that for awhile but I've had trouble finding games in it and since they use 8 minute quarters and slow game speed I've sort of moved out of it. The are a little more strict on player movement but I can still use any blitz that I have on my one thread and again there is no rule stopping the manual pass rushing method....I actually had 5 sacks in a game with Mathews once and my opponent had no issue with it (he did call Mathews a beast but he put the game up on the Good Game thread on operation sports).

    OS Vets Rules - Operation Sports Forums

    These are some of the more strict rules especially in terms of user control on the play...I wouldn't be able to follow these as it would drive me insane. I figured I'd give you an extreme example to go with the other two. Most of the rules are similar except the ones regarding user control.

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  6. #36
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    Love that video of Justin Smith smacking that RG like a bitch.

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    Am I the only one who finds it ironic that this guy always whines about nano's because they are unrealistic , but he acknowledges he plays F@G D.Yeah that is very realistic huh?

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    Crash your DL in(left on d-pad, then down on right stick)...

    User the LDE(right on screen)...at the snap, while holding down on the left stick...swim move to the right.(That's right on the right stick.)

    I get through 90 percent of the time.

    Also works if you crash your DL to the left.

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    it may sound weird, but for finesses moves u just move the right stick left/right? and how do you do a spin move? i normally control my FS or LB depending on the down n distance

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnA ExclusiVe View Post
    This is the main reason that Sergio Kindle is a 10x better pass rusher in this game than Jarret Johnson, despite Johnson having 91 PMV and Kindle having 92 FMV, Kindle always gets better pressure than Johnson.
    92 FMV Sergio Kindle? Is this the same guy who fell down the steps? Is this the same guy that I haven't even seen on the field except for special teams if that? How does he have a 92 FMV?

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